Looking back at the first season of our podcast, we discuss the core lessons that helped us throughout the journey of creating something new.
How can you communicate more clearly? Discover the 4 core elements of every message + some major communication tools in our new podcast episode.
Time to read: 18 minutes
Monika This is the Pioneers Club podcast.
Patrick The Community Podcast for driven entrepreneurs and leaders.
Monika Here you can connect with like minded people, create a sense of belonging and gain more agency in your daily life.
Hi, my name is Monika and I’m your host. I help entrepreneurs and leaders with big ideas go from feeling overwhelmed, scared and confused to being clear headed, confident and focused as they go after their goals. I’m a mental and systemic coach and primarily focus on topics such as resilience, agency, high performance, and goal pursuit, helping my clients thrive in their business with more ease.
Patrick And I’m your co-host, Patrick. I’m an entrepreneur in the fast paced media industry, and I help people tell stories. As a producer and production manager, I work with a global network of partners to create engaging content, combining media and technology to create value and impact. I went or live through the topics of our podcast just like you, and will try to ask the questions you might have.
Monika So welcome back to today’s episodes. I’m super excited for this one.
Patrick What do we have in store this week?
Monika Well, we are going to talk about something that is inherent in what we do in a pioneering approach to entrepreneurship, freelance, whatever you are choosing to do. And that’s the topic of dealing with risk, agreeing to deal with risk. And how do you balance that with your need for safety and security?
Patrick Oh, I feel like that’s a very big topic, especially since when you go into entrepreneurship and trying to be a freelancer – there’s nothing but risk when you start out.
Monika And at the beginning it can feel like this most inspiring thing, right? Oh yes, you’re going outside of your comfort zone and you are getting into something new. You have to learn. You’re taking risks, of course. But with time, and we have talked about this a few times already, staying in this state of having to take risks and keeping up with this uncertainty, it takes its toll. So it’s not for the faint of heart.
Patrick So what are we talking about when we talk about risk in terms of entrepreneurship, freelancers? How would you define risks in that… in that area?
Monika Well, basically, what I oftentimes hear from clients of mine as well or other entrepreneurs and freelancers is, “Well, I love to take risks, but I just want to know that it works out.” And this goes against the basic nature of risk, because risk just describes the uncertainty about the final outcome that you have with one decision that you make.
Patrick So basically, if you knew how it ended and if it worked out, it wouldn’t be a risk at all.
Monika Yes. Instead, it would be about patience maybe. Like, if you knew that it worked out well, but it just takes one year – well, then you need patience. But it doesn’t take risk tolerance.
Instead, it’s about accepting a challenging task that you really don’t know how it’s going to work out. You have to make calculated risks where you weigh your probabilities, you weigh your outcomes. But then you really have to stay in this state of ambiguity and uncertainty and deal with this while measuring your progress. And this is not something easy to do. And this is something where a lot of people and a lot of freelancers and entrepreneurs then start to stumble. Because if they don’t get the feedback, if they don’t see the results as they would have hoped to see them sooner, then the impatience kicks in, then the self-doubt kicks in – and then we start to second guess our decisions. Or, even worse, we start to make rash decisions which even sabotage a good plan, just because it’s not… like, the outcome is not clear yet.
Patrick So you’re more in a reaction than action?
Monika Yes. And this can be very multifold, right? So the risks can be of financial nature, of course. This is something that we all gamble with when it comes to starting something new and starting a new business. But it can also be reputational, right? How many times I have heard, “I don’t want to embarrass myself. I don’t know what people will think about when I do X, Y, Z.” This is something that is so innate in us to try to navigate also this social field that it feels very risky. The reputational, the social area is sometimes even more risky – or it’s perceived more risky – because the financial part, yes, we have the numbers. We know where we stand. We know what the risks might be. We can assess it. While the social area? Not that easy to assess.
Patrick Could it be that people might think of it as a more real risk? Because sometimes it feels like, okay, the financial risk that’s coming towards me, that’s something I can’t really change. It’s something that’s based on numbers, based on clients, based on projects. But when it comes to something emotional, it feels like, “Oh, I can I can deal with it at a later point. I can deal with it sometime in the future.”
Monika That’s true. Well, there are a lot of things that make a risk seem more imminent or bigger compared to something else, even though the other threat is much more realistic. So, there have been a few studies and they have shown that risks that are involuntary – so you have not agreed to take on this risk – might make a risk seem bigger. If they are catastrophic, if they the effects seem immediate – and this is with reputation, definitely – they also seem bigger.
I think it’s because the reputation that you have is something that is oftentimes very much linked to your self-image and how you perceive yourself, but also to what you do. Because as an entrepreneur, as a freelancer, how people react to what you offer is kind of paying you and is going to determine whether you can publish and go out and have an impact and really sell what you are offering. So, it’s a little bit more complicated than just being like, “Oh, I shouldn’t care about what people think.” So the risk is definitely there. But it’s also more imminent because you are going to get it maybe the day after already. While the financial risk is something that, if you have a plan to work towards to, you can take various steps and you have maybe a plan A, but also a plan B and a plan C of what you will do if the money doesn’t come in. So you have a little bit more of a time frame to play with.
Patrick So how do I deal with these different risks then coming towards me and that I’m confronted with? Because sometimes, as you said, it’s more imminent. The other thing could be further away from you. But how do I deal with those different risks hitting me at different times?
Monika Well, the most important thing is to determine your personal risk inclination. It means that you need to know which risks are more important to you or feel more threatening and how much of a safety need you have, in which way to fulfill this. This sounds a little bit complex, but it’s actually way easier than it may sound.
So I’ll give you two examples, and maybe this will show my case a little bit better. So I have two clients, both brilliant women, very smart and both very successful. BUT they have very different risk inclinations. So one of them is the typical what our entrepreneur online picture would kind of demand of you to be. This “Take risks, quit your job, go all in. If you have a plan B, you are not certain of your plan A”-mantra kind of type. And she really is this person. So she thrives with this kind of risk taking. She is more risk seeking and she has quit her job. She went all in. She built an amazing business. And this risk taking fueled her to be more creative, to look for more solutions, to keep up.
Patrick Guess it’s not everyone’s cup of tea because that’s very in-your-face, straightforward, almost like burning bridges kind of way to do it.
Monika Yes, but it was her style and it fit for her. I will say, though, that she had a context as well. She made sure to have a context in which she knew that she could live this safely.
On the other hand, I have this other client, equally successful, amazingly strategic and business savvy woman, and she built a successful business with a completely different approach because she is more risk averse in taking these rash decisions. Rather, she built it step by step, making sure that she always had a good safety net so she wouldn’t have to panic at any point.
And I don’t know about you, but for me as well, I know that I am more aligned with the second type simply because I know that my brain would go into panic mode if I had too much risk at one given point of time. So, this would then actually trigger me to take very, very rapid, impulsive decisions without thinking long term.
Because this is what stress and threats does to us, to our brain. We think about the short term. We are more focused on survival than about thriving, right? So we make maybe wrong decisions and we can’t make strategic decisions anymore.
Knowing this about yourself will allow you to then choose a strategy that will fit for you. But what I oftentimes see is that people get pushed into one way or another. They have to act more hesitant because their environment is telling them to just play it safe. And then again, I see other people being pushed into this impulsive, rash way, even though they would actually need a little bit more of a considerate approach.
Patrick From my experience, I have done the second approach, and I know for me it was the best way to do it. You always had a safety net and you could start out and could make better decisions based on actual projects that you got, requests that you got, and you don’t have to do things that you would normally not do. Like take profits that would make you sell yourself cheaper, projects that wouldn’t fit your quality standards. So it’s all of this together that actually helps you help me in that case, to build my company to where I am today.
Monika Yes, definitely. From a mental standpoint, I totally get that. And I’m a big proponent of choosing very wisely how to go into your entrepreneurial journey, because the side hustle oftentimes has this negative connotation. Like you’re not ready yet to go, you’re doubting yourself or whatever it is. You’re not a “real” entrepreneur. How often I have heard clients say, “I’m not a real entrepreneur yet,” whereas I’m just thinking, like, what do you mean? You’re in the building stage? This has such a negative effect on our mental state and on our decision making.
So as a mental coach, I’m very much for choosing very wisely which type you are and then going with that instead of allowing yourself to think that there is one absolute way that you have to do it. Again, though, I will say if you are more of the impulsive type and this gives you a lot of energy, you will have to come up with a strategy. It’s not a strategy to go and just hope and be impulsive. But then something like this, more step by step approach where you’ll go into it slowly and you you go parallel to, like, your job and then build something – this might actually hold you back. Then again, you would have to take a distance from this approach and own your own approach. But there we are again with this self-awareness and self-acceptance.
Patrick But then when we talk about risk versus safety, how do you deal with balancing? I need to take risks because as an entrepreneur, I just have to take certain risks. There’s just no way around it. There will always be risks to take versus I have this need for safety. How do I balance that? What would you give our audience as a as an input to find out where you stand in this? How much risk do I take? How much safety do I need?
Monika Well, it’s not about risk or safety in broad terms. I would get very specific.
Which risks do you feel you are taking?
How important are they for you and how imminent are they for you?
And which kind of safety needs do you have in relation to each specific risk that you are taking?
Of course there is the resilience aspect that you need to be strong and that you need to build on your mental resources. But this comes after you have realized what you are actually facing right now, right?
So there would be an assessment of first step, drop the toxic positivity. “Oh, no, I, I know that everything will work out. I just have to hope and close my eyes and just go for it.” This is a very sweet approach. But as I already said, hope is not a strategy. Having an approach that allows you to be very critical with your goals while being optimistic. So really, what could stand in my way? What could keep me from achieving those goals? And then coming up with clear plans on how you will approach these risks or these obstacles has been shown to allow you to reach your goals way faster and more consistently.
Patrick So it’s a bit of pushing down on the pain because it could be quite painful to actually realize, okay, there’s a risk. I don’t really want to take it or I don’t know if I want to take it. And especially when you look at the financial problems, for instance, you know, maybe there’s no money coming in. And if you look even closer at that, there’s fear and anxiety coming with that.
Monika Yeah, of course it is. And this is also why a lot of people avoid it. So avoidance is such a… procrastination, avoidance, whatever you call it, or whichever way it shows up… is such a big defense mechanism because people are afraid to look at it.
But this reality check is so important because oftentimes you will then also see – and this is also what I do with my clients always in a first step. The important thing is to find out, is this what you’re afraid of really, based in practical, observable conditions, like your circumstances? This demands a completely different approach compared to if it’s emotional, mental.
For example, you are hungry and you say, “I don’t know, why am I constantly hungry? I’m craving something. My body is just constantly wanting something. This is such a bad state to be in.” I would actually ask you first, right? Well, have you eaten? What have you eaten? And if you have not eaten or if you have eaten things that are high in sugar, for example, so your body kind of demands more to eat very quickly, then, of course, we would say like, okay, we need to change your diet instead of working on your mental state, where you would then kind of try to reframe this feeling of hunger or something like this, right?
And the same goes for risk. I know it’s painful. And this is also why it’s good to have someone, a partner with you, someone who can help you a little bit through it, who can help you also navigate that fear that comes up with it. But there is no way around it. Because then once you have assessed it, you are more empowered to actually do something. And the uncertainty is the thing that most often weighs down on people and keeps them in a stuck state.
Patrick So I guess it’s very helpful to have an authentic group of people that you can talk to. May it be a support network, friends, colleagues, partners at work, just someone who actually tells you how it is. It’s basically what we set out to do with the support network that we’re creating. Maybe you get a broader view of how to deal with certain things that come towards you.
Monika If it is a high quality network, I would definitely say that this is one of the major benefits that you get with it. Because it on the one hand counteracts the toxic positivity, it will show you openly the reality of things. But it will also allow you to get an empowered and enabled state to proactively deal with things and have this reality check to assess where are risks that you might see that are actually in experience, like people who have gone the same path have noticed that this really is not as much of a risk. While other things that you may even not see, there a support network also will show you wait, you might want to consider this or that. And it will give you actually experiences and tools and resources on how to deal with that.
I will say, if you don’t have such a network, if you don’t have such a group of people, just having one person who can help you do that, will also make a very big change.
Patrick But what do I do if I don’t have that single person, that support network? If I feel more or less alone with the risks that I’m confronted with?
Monika In this case, the best way to start is to try and choose a more open minded and empowered approach towards risks.
This means that whenever you feel this nervous feeling or maybe even anxiety that comes up with the uncertainty that you have to face, to really check in with yourself and go very detailed into asking yourself,
What would I need right now to better deal with this situation?
And I promise you, if you really do check in with yourself, not in theoretical general terms like what we just talked about, this is helpful, but in practical terms it would mean like, what do you need at this very moment? Then you would maybe realize, I would need to check the numbers. Because it’s in my head, I’m getting too vague about things. Maybe you would realize, I would need to talk with someone who just can give me feedback that things are okay. I would need maybe something completely else.
The important thing is to find out where you would be able to stabilize yourself and get your safety needs fulfilled a little bit more.
Patrick If you enjoyed this episode, share it with your fellow entrepreneurs so they can listen too. Simply grab the link to this episode or grab the link to the podcast and send it to them.
If you’re looking to join our tribe of movers and shakers to gain a sense of belonging and get fresh ideas and insights, be sure to join our parent club community. The link’s waiting for you in our show notes.
Monika Also, don’t forget to connect with us on LinkedIn or Instagram and let us know: What was one helpful thought or insight you gained from this episode?
Have any questions or ideas for us? Head over to our LinkedIn or Instagram pages and tell us! We read every submission and would love to answer your questions in a later episodes too. So thanks for joining us.
Patrick See you in the next one.
Time to read: 15 minutes
Monika This is the Pioneers Club podcast.
Patrick The Community Podcast for driven Entrepreneurs and leaders.
Monika Here you can connect with like minded people, create a sense of belonging and gain more agency in your daily life. Hi, my name is Monika and I’m your host. I help entrepreneurs and leaders with big ideas go from feeling overwhelmed, scared and confused to being clear headed, confident and focused as they go after their goals. I’m a mental and systemic coach and primarily focus on topics such as resilience agency, high performance and goal pursuit, helping my clients thrive in their business with more ease.
Patrick And I’m your co-host, Patrick. I’m an entrepreneur in the fast paced media industry, and I help people tell stories. As a producer and production manager, I work with a global network of partners to create engaging content, combining media and technology to create value and impact. I went or live through the topics of our podcast just like you, and will try to ask the questions you might have.
Patrick So welcome back to this week’s episode, and we’re talking about something that acknowledges the last two episodes. We talked about self-doubt. We talked about comparison. And this week we’re acknowledging that we talked about it, that we’re reflecting about it, that we’re working on ourselves, and now we want to change. Now we want to do something different because we realize that there is more potential and there’s something that we want or need to change.
Monika Yes, that’s often the moment where you have dealt with self-doubt and you are ready to own your vision, to own your own strengths, to stand up for yourself. And then you’ve also learned how to compare yourself intentionally and, therefore, are more aware of what you want and don’t want. And then you oftentimes get to this point where you are more clear on, “This is the way to go or this is not the way to go, and I need to change.”
But how do you do that if you’ve been doing something for years already? And if you’re in a habit of doing things in a certain way and other people expect it from you as well, right? How do you make this shift then?
Patrick And also, I think it’s about accepting yourself, the way you are working, you want to work – how to move forward with this certain way of doing things.
Monika That’s a huge challenge. Accepting yourself despite the resistance that you might get from other people then because you are so much more accepting of what is right for you, what works for you, what doesn’t work for you. And maybe this is different to what other people are doing. You need to be really rooted within yourself to then know exactly how to stand up for this new choice or this new awareness of yourself.
Patrick But how then can I change? I mean, I did all the work from our past two episodes. I’ve worked on the self-doubt. I worked on the comparison. I took all the positives from these two. And now I’m trying to change something. I’m trying to accept myself, that I’m doing things differently. What’s the first step?
Monika Well, the first step is to not rush into it, right? Because what I see oftentimes, also with my clients, they are so eager to draw conclusions, right?
So now you have stopped doubting yourself. You know how to stand up for yourself. You have stopped comparing yourself to the wrong people and you know more of what you want. And I have an idea of where I want to go.
And then usually people get impatient and they start rushing forward. They are, “Let’s go, let’s go, let’s go.” And want to draw conclusions before they have actually done the search that you need to do in order to become so focused and clear on what it is that you want to create.
Patrick I kind of get that because you just want to do something new and you can’t wait that this new thing, this new way of work, actually elevates you to a different level then.
Monika Of course, and that’s exciting. And also it feels as if you’re… if you are holding back, maybe this will lead you towards doubting yourself again, if you’re not rushing forward and getting these quick wins, right? Maybe you will start doubting or getting insecure or hesitant. So, let’s go. Let’s go all in.
I understand it perfectly well as well. But if you don’t do the groundwork, you will start stumbling later on.
Patrick So what’s the groundwork?
Monika The groundwork is to do the search work. And what I do, what I mean with search is that you actually go within and ask yourself, “What has happened in the past?” and really do a little bit of research. We would call this in business due diligence. You would look at what has happened until now and you are clear, “Okay, I don’t want that anymore, but what do I want instead?”
Usually this comes with two questions that you need to ask yourself.
First, what do I want to remain the same? So what is good about what is here now? Because usually people would throw out the baby with the bathwater. And this is too much of a risk oftentimes to take. And it will also lead oftentimes to then afterwards regret and doubt, because there were good things about what you did and there might have been things that you did subconsciously in a way that fulfilled a certain need. And if you just let go of everything, it’s always like going back to point zero and starting again.
Patrick So I don’t always have to go back and change the complete system. Sometimes it’s just taking the good things, keep them and then just changing some certain negative things that I don’t want to continue.
Monika People will ignore how powerful little shifts and changes are and to what they can build up to if you do them intentionally. But yes, what we don’t want is actually when we want to change, we want to build on everything that we have done. We don’t always want to engage in creative destruction where we rip ourselves off all the benefits of what we have built until now. No, we want to change and we want to grow. But we want to build on what we have done so far.
And then once you have asked the question, “What do I want to remain the same?” or “What do I want to keep having/doing?” Then you can ask yourself, “Okay, what do I not want anymore? What do I want to let go of?”
But it’s not enough to just know what you want to let go of. You need to ask yourself, “What do I want to be there instead?”
Patrick I think that’s an important question to dive in a little deeper here, because maybe some people might think that it is very complicated what needs to be there, how does this thing that needs to be there look like.
Is it very complex? Is it very big or can it be just a blueprint of what I want to change?
Monika Not at all. It’s not complicated at all. Rather, it’s an awareness shift in choosing where to focus your attention. And if you continue to ask this question, things will get clearer. And then, of course, it will be complex. But at the beginning… yes, this would be again, the trying to draw conclusions too quickly. Where people would then go, “Yes, but how?” What should be there instead? And they would rush into the how. No.
Monika Let’s take an example. You have started to own your worth because you don’t doubt yourself anymore that strongly. You are aware of your strengths. You are not comparing yourself to the wrong people anymore. So now you want to also own your worth in communicating with other people. This may be potential clients, partners, etc. but you really want to charge and also show up in a way that acknowledges the value of what you’re offering. So you might say, “I don’t want to be nervous anymore”, or “I don’t want to play small anymore.”
Patrick Not that easy to do, though, because it’s a very broad thing, actually.
Monika Yeah. But you get there if you start asking the question, “What do I want to be there instead?”
Do you want to be assertive or do you want to be humorous and not take things too seriously? These are very different approaches and choosing where you want to go and how things should change will make it easier for you to then go to the next step.
Monika And this is to find examples of how to do it differently. If you know where you’re going, it will be easier to find these exceptions to what you have been doing before.
Patrick So exceptions just means there are certain things that are out of the system that still work. Doesn’t mean the entire system is changing. It’s just certain aspects that can be different and I need to find them and implement them into how I work and need to actually find out if that’s even working.
Monika Yes, very well explained. In coaching I work with exceptions because they are so powerful.
You can look for exceptions within yourself. When do I find it easier to assert my worth? When do I find it easier to be relaxed? And then analyze these situations and what allowed you to do things differently there.
Or you might also want to look at exceptions using other people as reference model, other ways of doing things, other ways of working within a certain system where you can say, “Oh, well, this might work. It’s different to what I’ve been doing or what others are doing, but it’s been shown to work.”
Patrick Am I then back into comparing myself?
Monika Yes, there you are. But it is very intentional and different because you are already in this deeply rooted state, but also in an analyzing state where you are just curious and looking for solutions instead of judging yourself and judging other people’s solutions.
Patrick So that’s already sort of a coaching input from you, how to do this, how to change. But if I’m ready to change, what does it actually take to change? Because it’s not a process that happens overnight. It’s not something that I’m doing from one day to the other. It takes a long time. It takes a lot of work. But what does it take mentally from myself to get through that?
Monika That’s true. This explanation or these approaches that I just explained are something that I would do in a process with my clients just over, let’s say, 2 or 3 sessions, the analyzing work. But then I would give them a lot of time in between the sessions to put it into practice.
It does take a lot of courage, a lot of acceptance, a lot of open mindedness and curiosity to keep exploring things, then to see what works. Because sometimes as well you will find – intending to do things differently, and you already have this outlook, let’s say, you have your what is there instead – and then you find out, Well, this is not exactly it, though. And to not get discouraged at this point, but keep going on and keep growing, it takes a lot of courage, acceptance, open mindedness, and also risk tolerance.
Because what I hear oftentimes is that people are willing to take the risk, willing to take the leap if someone is going to guarantee them that it works out.
Patrick Which is not really taking a risk, because if we knew it would work out well, not a risk and we would all do it.
Monika That’s it. To be really risk tolerant, you have to have this endurance of this transitional time as well, where you are just unsure of how things are going to unfold. Where you need to hold the space – this is what I often do and talk about in coaching – hold the space to just endure the ambiguity, the not-knowing.
Patrick Which is probably the hardest because every entrepreneur is, as you just mentioned before, straightforward into action, wanting to do something fast and get to the change, get to the new standard basically.
And then you’re just in this trial and error mode where you just have to wait that okay, is it working out or is it not working out?
Monika Yeah, that’s why one of the most radical interventions that I can give my clients is usually – and they are these driven and passionate, ambitious entrepreneurs – is usually, don’t change anything yet. This is really a challenge for them because this demands to endure things and go into this searching state before then taking the risk to actually implement the changes. We are going to talk about risk tolerance next time as well and how to do it more intentionally.
But staying in this state of knowing that you’re going to change, being ready to change and not changing it yet? Oh, yeah. Takes a lot of patience.
Patrick A lot of energy. Not that easy, actually.
Monika Not that easy. But once you learn how to do it, it gets more fun because then you find freedom within that.
Monika But this is also… This time of the year is perfect, actually, to do just that. Because, right now, we all are finalizing the past year, thinking about and reflecting hopefully on how things went. We are comparing what we set ourselves as goals, what we actually achieved, how things went, what came unexpectedly as well. A lot of times we don’t account for the unexpected.
Patrick Well, especially in entrepreneurship, a lot of things are unexpected during the year.
Monika Yes. So taking this time where you are not already going into taking new actions, but taking this time to reflect on everything that’s happened and that led you to be there where you are now. And then do this searching work, just as we have talked about it now, in order to then be ready for the new year. This is a great way to finalize and really wrap up the year.
Monika So I invite you to do just that, to take these next few weeks, even if it’s just for a few hours on the weekend. To do this reflecting work, to acknowledge everything that you’ve done so far in this year, draw your conclusions about where you want to go and then do the search work.
Now, if you want a little bit of more of guidance and support along this way, I invite you to join me on Instagram where I have a new free guide for you, offering several coaching prompts and journaling prompts for you to go deeper, to take several questions and just reflect on everything that you’ve achieved.
This kind of work will allow you to introduce the new year with more focus and intentionality.
Patrick If you enjoyed this episode, share it with your fellow entrepreneurs so they can listen to Simply grab the link to this episode or grab going to the podcast and send it to them. If you’re looking to join our tribe of movers and shakers to gain a sense of belonging and get fresh ideas and insights, be sure to join our Pioneers Club community. The link’s waiting for you in our show notes.
Monika Also, don’t forget to connect with us on LinkedIn or Instagram and let us know: What was one helpful thought or insights you gained from this episode?
Have any questions or ideas for us? Head over to our LinkedIn, our Instagram pages and tell us we read every submission and would love to answer your questions in a later episodes too. So thanks for joining us.
Patrick See you in the next one.
Time to read: 16 minutes
Monika This is the Pioneers Club podcast.
Patrick The community podcast for driven entrepreneurs and leaders.
Monika Here you can connect with like minded people, create a sense of belonging and gain more agency in your daily life. Hi, my name is Monica and I’m your host. I help entrepreneurs and leaders with big ideas go from feeling overwhelmed, scared and confused to being clear headed, confident and focused as they go after their goals. I’m a mental and systemic coach and primarily focus on topics such as resilience, agency, high performance and goal pursuit, helping my clients thrive in their business with more ease.
Patrick And I’m your co-host, Patrick. I’m an entrepreneur in the fast paced media industry, and I help people tell stories as a producer and production manager. I work with a global network of partners to create engaging content, combining media and technology to create value and impact. I went or that through the topics of our podcast, just like you and will try to ask the questions you might have.
Monika So if I told you that more than 10% of your thoughts are comparative in nature, meaning that you compare yourself to others or yourself in one way or another, what would you say?
Patrick I would try to find a way to confirm these numbers because I would literally not believe you.
Monika Well, this is exactly what a study found that was made at the University of Pennsylvania. It found that 12% of all thoughts are comparative, meaning that you compare yourself to others to who you could have been or what you could have achieved, what you could have done, or to some version of yourself that is in the past or in the future.
Patrick So I’m spending 12% of all my thoughts a day on something that we’re basically taught is not that great because everyone’s saying, stop comparing yourself.
Monika Which is a very common misconception, right? Because comparison does have a purpose.
On the one hand, it can be this negative thing that triggers self-doubt, self-worth issues. But on the other hand, we also know that if we are the only ones doing something, feeling a certain way or thinking a certain way, we feel lonely. We lack a sense of belonging and we lack orientation. Comparison has a very important purpose.
And this is actually something that a cognitive psychologist, Leon Festinger, already claimed and developed in his social comparison theory in 1954. He claimed that we need to compare ourselves to others when we evaluate our abilities, our opinions, our skill sets, our progress and development, especially if it’s not possible to test it directly (so to experiment and get real results or feedback). We need others to orient ourselves in this way.
Patrick So we need it to improve ourselves.
Monika Yes, we need it to learn, grow, improve ourselves. And this is actually one of the purposes.
Monika So you have these two types of comparison, upward and downward comparison.
Upward comparison means that you compare yourself to people who are doing better or who you perceive as doing better than you are. These are role models, ideals, whoever you think about. And you would usually say in social comparison theory that you look up to these people and compare yourself to them in order to on the one hand, it’s by yourself, but also to improve yourself by watching them and learning from them.
And on the other hand, then you have the downward comparison, which also has a very important purpose, where you compare yourself to someone who is not doing as well as you, or at least you perceive him or her as not doing as well as you. And the purpose of this kind of comparison is to self-regulate, self-soothe, in order to remind you of your own progress and feel better about yourself.
Patrick Couldn’t that be dangerous to some degree when you compare yourself? Upward comparison, you said, has some benefits because you want to improve yourself. The downward comparison is a sort of regulating yourself. But couldn’t both be a bit dangerous, especially when we talk about social media being part of this comparison right now and changes how we compare ourselves to others, how often we do it, it distorts the comparison a bit, right?
Monika Definitely. So there have always been and I think there will always be benefits and dangers to comparison.
So, yes, you get information on how you well you are doing and how well you are progressing if you find the right person to compare yourself with.
But you can also experience significant dangers in growing even more judgmental towards yourself or towards others. You can be overly competitive. You can compare yourself to people who are not really aligned with your goals, with your values, or even with your needs. So you compare yourself to someone who is just not a good role model or example of measurement for you. Not a bad role model in the goal itself, but in how to achieve that goal let’s phrase it like this.
Patrick So there’s actually one example that I want to bring into that because it’s something that I experienced myself when I connected to someone from my industry, and it’s someone who has been working in the industry longer than I have, has more experience than I have. But the moment you are bombarded on social media with photos or posts about everything is going well all the time and you start comparing yourself and asking the questions, What could I have done differently? What could I have done better? It can actually be very frustrating to have that comparison in front of you all the time.
Monika I would actually say that this might be because you don’t really get a lot of information on social media about what they are doing or how they got to the point where they are now or what the reality of their experience is. It doesn’t give you a lot of information.
Just like you said, you want to improve “How can I achieve that?” or “How can I get to the point where they are?” If you are seeing these pictures, they are just like this ideal, but you don’t get any feedback or advice or guidance on the steps that you can take towards that.
So the gap between where you are and where they are can seem overwhelming. Of course, then you would feel bad about yourself. This is one of the biggest dangers and one of the biggest consequences of unintentional comparison that I see and that I work with, with my clients as well is feeling bad about yourself, even if you have no reason to feel bad about yourself simply because you have these superficial or exaggerated ideals that you compare yourself to.
Patrick I think it’s also something that I found out preparing for this episode when I went through my own social feed and looked at it from this top view, this meta view, and then think about how your posts could react to other people. And when I go back to having a big project in the past and then look at the pictures, you don’t see the struggles. You don’t see what I went through on a daily basis, how I felt getting up in the morning and that it took a few years to actually get all of this done so you can be there to take that one photo. So it’s a huge distortion of reality, actually.
Monika Well, it just shows you the peaks and not the climb towards the peaks.
And even those who show the climb towards the peaks, they just can’t – and it’s okay – they can’t show you everything. They, it’s not as a reality show.
But if this is the only thing that you compare yourself to or if you compare yourself exaggeratedly to it because you have to work with these tools, you have to be online. A lot of people that we know, a lot of entrepreneurs can’t really choose to turn off social media. If you are at this moment of grinding, right? You are in this moment of climbing the mountain and you are consistently seeing people showing you their peaks, their pictures of maybe not only the mountain that you are trying to climb, but the next mountain, which is even higher, and that you know that you aspire to climb at one point as well and that you should climb as well. Then, there is a lot of pressure that forms a pressure of what am I doing wrong? Because everyone seems to be at these peaks with ease.
And this is something that I hear a lot of the time when people talk to me and I have been part of a circle of entrepreneurs, coaching different entrepreneurs in a network, and it’s so fun to hear when people come to me and compare themselves to other clients of mine and tell me how easy it is for them and how natural they are and why, what is it that they have that they don’t have? But we don’t see it and we compare our grind to their peaks.
Patrick But also I think it can be quite helpful to have some sort of comparison even on social media. And again, I’m speaking from experience when I see certain people, so I’m being pushed a little bit.
Monika Yes. So actually there has been another study that I have found in researching this episode where it has been shown that there are great benefits if you use social media in terms of comparing yourself correctly. And this is in ways of using it for “friendly competition”.
What does this mean? Well, they took a group of people who wanted to exercise more and who wanted to do more regular practices of workouts or going to the fitness center. And they looked into what would support these people most. Is it a support network that would just offer some kind of emotional encouragement? Is it leaving them alone and just doing things on their own? Or is it putting them in a group where there would be a certain competition by seeing how often others are going to the fitness center, how often others are working out and seeing their results in order to push yourself as well?
Patrick It’s a gentle push to work more to compare yourself to the goals of others.
Monika To remind yourself of what is possible for you as well.
The important thing here is that the support network, just in the encouragement style of support, was the least efficient way of supporting people to actually work out more. It was way more effective to just leave them alone, actually. But the best way to actually support people was to give them this kind of friendly competition where they would get encouragement, but also this way of comparing themselves and getting a way of pushing themselves.
If we were able to find this way of friendly competition for us as entrepreneurs, I think this would be a great way to reap the benefits of comparison, but also then to avoid the risks.
Patrick It’s also something our support network can provide.
Monika Yes, I think it might be easier if you have the people face to face or if you have a very designated group where people are of a certain mindset that you know that you relate to where they have similar goals.
So this is also something that social comparison theory knows that if we compare ourselves to people who are just too different on certain parameters, for us, the comparison doesn’t work anymore, so we don’t really learn from them anymore, but also we don’t compare ourselves in a negative way to them anymore because they are just too different.
Having this way of connecting with people to really have this check in, to have this orientation – definitely it will benefit you. I would say much more than social media in general, because this superficiality, of course, is just something that is in the nature of social media.
Patrick And it’s not really helping in that instance. You need honest and open conversations so that you can be authentic about the issues, but also overcome those issues.
Patrick So what do I do if I haven’t found that positive approach yet?
Monika Well, if comparison is still a source of self-doubt and rather negative emotions or experiences for you, it would be important first to identify the trigger.
What is it that started this kind of circle of self-doubt? And what is it that started you to compare yourself? Try to find out, why is it that you are feeling negative about it?
Because sometimes it can be just a justified feeling of frustration, but sometimes it can be a feeling of trying to motivate your and then having this superficiality and then even feeling more frustrated because you’re not motivating yourself, but even feeling worse about yourself. So a little bit… identifying the trigger and recognizing just what is happening at this moment.
Patrick So when we bring this back to social media, there are a lot of people, especially if we think back to our event, who can’t turn off social media because they need it for work. So they actually will always compare themselves because they are seeing the content nonstop. So what is your advice to them?
Monika Two things.
First, take time to become aware of your own strengths and really focus on yourself again. If you are doing a lot on social media and being bombarded with other people’s performance and other people’s results, you have to take the time to acknowledge your own wins and not just focus on the external. So this is the first point that I would do it, make it a ritual, or do something like with a friend, with a coach, whoever you need, to go back to acknowledging your own progress and strength.
The second strategy that I would offer you as well is one that I have found as well in a study where they have shown that if people compare themselves not to the number one performing person in a field, but to the seventh best performing person in a field, this comparison effect goes away.
If you compare yourself to someone who is doing well, but who is still learning themselves and who still has space for improvement, this might give you a lot more information, but also a lot more self awareness in being able to acknowledge that others are also just growing and learning as you are. So maybe it’s a little bit easier to consume that comparison then.
But as always, there is not a one size fits all solution. You need to try it out. And one thing that everyone can try to get to a better understanding of how to deal with their own way of comparing themselves is to simply try and identify what kind of comparison am I actually engaging in right now.
If you’re observing yourself, comparing yourself to someone or something and you feel good about it and it motivates you and you are inspired to improve and learn, try to intensify these kinds of comparisons. Try to look for more people who are similar to this person.
If you are finding that another kind of comparison is actually lowering your self-esteem, making you feel bad, making you feel limited or in some way restricting you, try to identify who are you comparing yourself to in this situation and then avoid these kinds of comparison. But trying to avoid comparison overall, I think this is too much to ask.
Patrick And this is just something that everyone has to learn to deal with. It’s just a natural thing we all have to work on.
Patrick If you enjoyed this episode, share it with your fellow entrepreneurs so they can listen too. Simply grab the link to this episode or grab the link to the podcast and send it to them. If you’re looking to join our tribe of movers and shakers, to gain a sense of belonging and get fresh ideas and insights, be sure to join our Pioneers club community. The link is waiting for you in our show notes.
Monika Also, don’t forget to connect with us on LinkedIn or Instagram and let us know: What was one helpful thought or insights gained from this episode?
Have any questions or ideas for us? Head over to our LinkedIn or Instagram pages, and tell us. We read every submission and would love to answer your questions in a later episode too. So thanks for joining us.
Patrick See you in the next one.
Time to read: 17 minutes
Monika This is the Pioneers Club podcast.
Patrick The community podcast for driven entrepreneurs and leaders.
Monika Here you can connect with like minded people, create a sense of belonging and gain more agency in your daily life. Hi, my name is Monica and I’m your host. I help entrepreneurs and leaders with big ideas go from feeling overwhelmed, scared and confused to being clear headed, confident and focused as they go after their goals. I’m a mental and systemic coach and primarily focus on topics such as resilience, agency, high performance and goal pursuit, helping my clients thrive in their business with more ease.
Patrick [00:00:47] And I’m your co-host, Patrick. I’m an entrepreneur in the fast paced media industry, and I help people tell stories as a producer and production manager. I work with a global network of partners to create engaging content, combining media and technology to create value and impact. I went or that through the topics of our podcast, just like you, and we’ll try to ask the questions you might have.
Patrick So this week we’re talking about a topic that we all know we’ve all been through. We are all dealing with it. It’s called self-doubt. Why are we talking about it?
Monika Well, this is the number one request that I get to talk about, actually, when it comes to as well as speaking offers. But also, it was one of the most universally agreed on topics in our life event. And it is one of the most universal challenges that I see new clients.
Patrick And as we’ve talked about in preparing this episode, it’s one of the most complex issues, actually.
Monika Well, it shows up in so many different ways and there are so many different sources that there is no one answer to it. There are so many facets to consider which makes it so confusing as well, and which is maybe even why people feel so confused when it comes to dealing with a topic or how to take a more empowered approach to this topic. Because all the absolute answers that try to give you one, two, three step process will likely work for some, but not for everyone. And for those who it doesn’t work for, it will then be to even more complications. Maybe, but for those who it works for, it can also then self-doubt can show up in other ways if you don’t really acknowledge the complexity of it. So we will try to keep this very practical and not go into everything while giving you a little bit of an introduction into the complexity of it as well.
Patrick And we also said that self-doubt is something that we will talk about in all of our future episodes because it’s one form that we will experience with all the other issues that we’re talking about.
Monika Yes, it’s just one way that a lot of other issues are underlying issues or questions or goals needs can show up as.
Patrick So then let’s dive into our introduction to self-doubt. What is it actually?
Monika What’s this experience of second guessing yourself all the time? Questioning your abilities, questioning your qualifications, questioning your choices, and questioning yourself as a person? This is already then where we go into the question that people ask, Am I good enough? Not only is my skillset good enough, is what I’m doing good enough, but and I as a person, good enough.
Patrick But that’s mostly negative connotation. What is the good thing about self-doubt?
Monika Well, most people won’t experience us as a good thing, right? So it’s this very negative experience that you have. It’s very uncomfortable as well. In fact, though, it can be a healthy sign as well, because if you are very interested and driven and visionary and I know that this is true for the two of us, but also for our listeners, then you will constantly go out of your comfort zone. You will constantly look for ways to grow, to learn, to try new things, to broaden your horizon. And with this, there will always come this moment of doing something for the first time, trying something new, and just getting the feedback of, Hey, this is something that I’m not really efficient yet. This is something that I’m not familiar with. And self-doubt in these moments can really be just a good moment of reality. Check to check in with yourself and be like, Wait a second, is there something that I have still to learn? Is there something that I have still to research or get information from others?
Patrick So it’s basically a system of checks and balances to improve myself.
Monika Yes, it can be. This is why I always like to do a reality check with my clients first before we pathologize the thing, the whole topic, or we make it more about a personal limitation because sometimes it really is a very healthy way of dealing with reality, which is just new for you. I would be much more worried if people went into new things, went out of their comfort zone and were completely naive or arrogant all the time. Right. So there is this possibility that you are just checking in with yourself and really appreciating reality for what it is doesn’t mean that you need to let it stop you, though, right? If you acknowledge that this is this self-doubt is just a sign of you needing to learn something or do something, then just go learn and do it. If it does stop you, if it does hint more towards a personal limitation, then you will want to look at other needs that might be hidden behind that.
Patrick Maybe that’s already what we should discuss next. Where is the self-doubt coming from?
Monika Usually when people ask this question, they hope to answer two questions with one answer, and this is Where is the self-doubt coming from and how do I deal with it? The answer is not the same, though. So let’s address first the where does the self-doubt come from, really? And I’m sorry to say, but just like we said before, it really is complex. There is no one source that will justify all kinds of self-doubt for all people. There can be so many situations and experiences that might trigger self-doubt. It can be something that you have learned from your family system, from your working environment. It can be something that you have internalized from other people talking about you or other people talking about themselves. It can be that you are overwhelmed. It can be that you have fear of success. So there is so much, which is also why people get so confused. If you are trying to answer, how do they deal with it? In this way, you will get even more confused and then you will start doubting yourself even more probably.
Patrick And I guess it’s also everyone has probably dozens of different reasons for their own self-doubt.
Monika Yes, it can be a complex mix of things and there may be one core need, but to filter that out through a variety of experiences that you are still emotionally connected to, this is just a challenge to work through by yourself.
Patrick But do I have to figure out where exactly it’s coming from in order to deal with it?
Monika As a coach, I’m more focused on the solutions and on the present. Of course, the source is important because it will change how you want to approach a topic and what you want to focus. But the misconception is that you need to find out first where it is coming from to then deal with it. And sometimes, or oftentimes it’s actually the other way around by getting active and starting to deal with it, you will gather the information and find the answers that will lead you to this source, and then you are even more empowered. So it’s a little bit of a twisted approach and people’s perspective, but so much more enriching and informative because you’re dealing with your reality and not just some theoretical psychological concept.
Patrick And on that cue, that’s actually perfect for our coaching input for this episode because we were talking about keeping it a bit more practical this episode. So let’s dive into what can you give our listeners to help them deal with self-doubt? Yes, we know there’s not one single source of truth. There’s no one right answer. But what can they start doing to address it?
Monika My tip is to find your own recipe, to deal with your individual manifestation of self doubt. Because just like we already said, you won’t probably get rid of it once and for all. It’s something that will show up continuously again and again whenever you grow and whenever you have like a big step or something. But the efficiency and the mastery comes in when you know how to deal with it and when you know how to live with it in a way where it becomes more of a partner in crime and an informant compared to someone who is opposed to everything that you do. And that is resistance, right?
Patrick I’m sure you have some guidance for our listener.
Monika Well, I’m going to give you a little introduction that people can do into developing their own recipe. We already started with the first point in our last episode. First point is always start observing yourself, start observing your experience of self doubt. In psychology, we like to talk about the inner parts. So this self doubt is part of you and I would advise everyone to start really taking notes on where and when this part shows up. When does it get triggered? How does it get triggered? Does it get triggered by experiences, by moments? Does it get triggered by people? Comparison Perfect example of how to trigger self doubt. When does it get triggered? How does it then show up? Does it show up like this inner voice that is telling you that you’re not good enough, that you can do it? Or is it showing up like physical nervousness, like cold hands and wet hands, like avoidance, procrastination. I know for a few clients, analysis paralysis is the way that self-doubt really loves to work.
Patrick But what do I do then when I have all my observations, I have let’s just say I have my notes, I have sweaty hands. Sometimes I like to avoid some things, I procrastinate. What do I do with this information?
Monika So this is where you take a little bit of a counterintuitive approach and ask yourself, how is it good that this is happening? What does having self-doubt in this way – what does having cold hands or doubting myself in this moment to hold back – what does this allow me to do?
Patrick Can I even do that by myself? You’re a coach. You’re used to helping people go to that point to find a good. But how can I do that myself?
Monika Well, it takes a little bit of practice. I’m going to be honest. This is not an easy question to answer. There is a lot of resistance that comes up with this. First of all, because people oftentimes feel as if having a reason for something means having an excuse for it to stay this way. And they don’t want that. Of course we don’t want that. But this doesn’t mean that. It just means acknowledging that there is a purpose, a need that is trying to be fulfilled by you behaving in this way. And once you know that, you can change your approach, but of course, it’s easier if someone can help you. However, if you are able to bring yourself to go into a more curious state and observe yourself as if you were observing your best friend, for example, then you might find it easier to take a little bit of a humorous approach and even provoke yourself a little bit. I don’t know. For some people, this works very well to provoke themselves in a way where they would get themselves to acknowledge a very good phrase to use. Even though I find it hard to accept this, the good in experiencing self doubt might be and then try to answer it. And in most cases you will find that it is either a protection mechanism, it is trying to keep you safe because you feel that in some way or another you are going to be threatened or it will be something that you have learned and you are just staying loyal to a version of yourself or to the system. The family that has taught you that this is the way to behave with yourself, with others, whatever environment you’re in. It is not easy to find the purpose. It is not easy to find the good. But I promise you, there is something to it. We don’t do things without a reason.
Patrick And whatever have the purpose. Then we’ve had step one, observation, step two, finding the purpose. We have that now, and people have answered it for themselves. What do I do with that purpose, then?
Monika Okay, so now you have two options. First option, try to fulfill this need and this purpose in another way. Try to take care of it. Just like if you knew that you will be hungry after 5 hours and you go on a hike, you would take something to eat with you, wouldn’t you? So if you know that you have this need for protection, try to take care of it in advance. Take care of your mental and emotional needs. If this doesn’t work, if the resistance is too strong, you can go into a little bit of a different approach and ask yourself what is the cost of being loyal and listening to my self doubt? What is this costing me? Because oftentimes the self doubt will be very good at showing us how we might embarrass ourselves if we did what we want to do, how we might fail. But we don’t have this mirror on the other side to look at. Okay, what is the cost of staying this way in self doubt? And once you feel the costs rising and you get more aware of it, you will be more activated probably to do something against self doubt. And then you can come back to the purpose and try to fulfill it in another way.
Patrick That doesn’t really sound like an easy thing to do, though. It might be just three steps that you just told us, but it’s still extremely hard, probably for the first time, just to observe yourself, take the judgment and the emotions out. So practice, practice, practice, probably.
Monika Yes, it is. It is not that hard once you know how to do it. But of course, if you’re stuck in this experience and it feels just so close and intimate right now, of course it’s going to be hard to go through this process in this moment. My tip would be find someone who can make it humorous for you. Humor is one of the best ways to shift your perception of something. And if you feel that everything is closing and the things are getting too tight and too tense. Humor is such a great way to lighten things up and to open up your mind and perception again. I laughed so much with my clients when it comes to the inner critic or the little devil that we talk about, because once you know that this is just a part of you that is trying to protect you or fulfill a need, and it is doing so in a very clumsy way, it becomes so much more fun to find new ways of dealing with it.
Patrick So it’s a bit of taking it serious that there is something, but taking yourself not too serious while doing it.
Monika Yes, that’s beautiful. That’s a beautiful way of phrasing it. Take it serious in a way that you will not oversimplify it. Oh, I just need to tell myself affirmations. If this works for you. If you have tried it, go for it. In my experience, affirmations will often not work if you have not done the foundational work.
Patrick It’s a bit too simple.
Monika It’s a little bit too simple, too fast. On the other hand, don’t take yourself too seriously in this experience because it is just you trying to do something with your self and you just don’t know yet how to do it.
Patrick That’s also what we’re here for. We are trying to provide a support network for everyone who’s joining our community to not go through that process alone.
Monika Yes. So this is what I would hope that we give people with this episode as well. A little introduction into the topic, but also a little bit more of an empowered and actionable episode with a cheeky twist. Maybe a humorous introduction into not taking it, not taking yourself in this experience too seriously so you are more flexible again.
Patrick And maybe some of our listeners would like to share some of their experiences with us. Maybe they want to share with us how they experience going through your coaching input, for instance.
Monika Yes, definitely. I would be really happy to hear if there are any questions, but also if there are just stories to share because in sharing we also know that it becomes so much easier to deal with a topic.
Patrick If you enjoyed this episode. Share it with your fellow entrepreneurs so they can listen to simply grab the link to this episode or grab the thing to the podcast and send it to them. If you’re looking to join our tribe of movers and shakers to gain a sense of belonging and get fresh ideas and insights, be sure to join our Pioneers club community. The links waiting for you in our show.
Monika Also, don’t forget to connect with us on LinkedIn or Instagram and let us know. What was one helpful thought or insights you gained from this episode? Have any questions or ideas for us? Head over to our LinkedIn, our Instagram pages, and tell us we read every submission and would love to answer your questions in a later episodes too. So thanks for joining us.
Patrick See you in the next one.
Time to read: 19 minutes
M: This is the pioneers club podcast.
P: The community podcast for driven entrepreneurs & leaders.
M: Here you can connect with like-minded people, create a sense of belonging and gain more agency in your daily life.
M: Hi, my name is Monika and I’m your host. I help entrepreneurs & leaders with big ideas go from…
P: And I’m your co-host, Patrick. I help people bring stories to life.
M: So, as promised…
P: Yeah, let’s talk about the very first Pioneers Club Live Event. How was it for you?
M: Well, I, honestly it’s already been like 3 weeks since we met there…
P: It’s been a while! It took us a while to get back together actually.
M: It took a little bit of time. But, I am still as hyped and excited about it as I was the day afterwards because it was just such a beautiful experience and so refreshing. I loved the people who joined us, we had all kinds of pioneers and entrepreneurs from all kinds of industries. And they were really gracious with each other. They were opening up so quickly. They were sharing lessons learned, where they are at in their journey. But also struggles, challenges, and opening to others to share their experiences and also get feedback. Ask them about how they are experiencing certain things. It was just such an honest conversation.
P: That was very refreshing actually because it impressed me that people that just got to know each other, they hadn’t seen each other ever before, and then they were just talking about what’s challenging them in their work, in their daily lives. And, it was so… I wouldn’t say weird, but refreshingly weird, that people actually talked like this to each other.
M: Yeah, so the complete opposite of networking events! Just like we said, right? What we are intending to do. The complete opposite of it.
And they were so generous as well with their insights that they shared then. If somebody opened up about a question or a challenge that they are experiencing, the others would instantly jump in and give their own opinions. And give their own experiences, sharing openly and honestly what helped them or how they approached this topic or whether they experienced it in the same way. So, I found it very easy to go from one topic to the other, as well, because people were just chiming in and having this exchange.
P: So it was way better than anticipated. Because we were both a bit like, Okay, so, we really hope this is good, but we don’t know how people will react to actually asking them to share what’s not that great. About what they’re going through right now, their challenges, issues that they have. So, yeah, I’m positively impressed by everyone who was there.
M: Yes! I was so nervous before that. It’s just a very vulnerable place to be in, to ask someone to be very open & honest about the good and the bad. And they did it in the most impressive way as well! It just showed their strength and I was impressed by every single one who joined us, no matter which stage of their journey they are at. It was beautiful to see.
P: But, let’s take a step back. Because for some people who might not know our very first podcast, who might not know our event that we did… So, basically, what we set out to do was create a support network for entrepreneurs so they can exchange their experiences, talk to each other, and I’d like to see getting to a better version of themselves with someone else.
But, I think we quickly need to talk about what a support network actually is. Because the word can be quite intimidating. Because some people might think it’s this huge thing, complex thing, where you have to talk about certain issues, problems, and whatever. But, we actually talked about how simple it can be and how basics the needs and benefits can be.
M: Well, I think it was a very interesting question that was also raised that evening. Where one of the participants actually said that they don’t feel the need to have a support network. They are just blessed to have friends and people that they can exchange their experiences with anyways. And I had to chuckle at that because it was this notion of: do you need something or do you just enjoy having something?
And with a support network, just like you said, it’s oftentimes this intimidating thing because people feel as if they are admitting that they need support, that they are too weak, that they don’t handle things by themselves. Which is maybe a sign of our individualized society where we have forgotten that we are simply social beings and that no one works alone. And that no one works well in isolation. We know from psychology, isolation is one of the biggest risk factors for people to actually lose their agility, their mental resources, even intelligence has been shown to be affected by isolation.
P: So, would you say that just engaging with people is a very basic way to help us?
M: Definitely. We need exchange with other people. It gives us orientation in our reality, it gives us feedback about where we are standing. It defines our role in relation to others, in relation to the world that we interact with. Because no one of us doesn’t interact with the world around them, you can’t isolate yourself so far… Or, even then, it’s a decision that you made with respect to society, I guess.
So, a support network basically… If
If you have all of that and you don’t name it a support network, go for it! You don’t need the support network per se with this name. But actually, everyone of us needs these kinds of interactions, this exchange, and the support that we get through such relationships.
P: So you just don’t label it a support network, but you just… you basically still have it.
M: Yeah, maybe. I don’t care what you label it, I just care that you have it.
P: But, what would be a benefit, or what are the key benefits, when we talk about… well, we’re labeling it a support network now, this is what we’re going for, this is what we’re trying to give people. If someone doesn’t have that and even if it’s just parts of that: what can they get from what we are trying to offer them?
M: Okay, so I’m going to give you four specific benefits.
One benefit, just like I addressed a little bit right now, is that a support network supports you extremely with resources. And these resources can be other experiences that they have made, case studies that you can apply to yourself, real resources like connections, like introductions to other people, practical resources, like monetary and whatever you need to actually achieve your goal. But also insights as to having feedback how they would approach a situation etc. So they enrich you with a multitude of options, let’s phrase it like this.
The second point is, a support network is helping you to spot your own blind spots which is very easy to happen if you’re an expert in something and you’re doing something, so you are in the trenches. It can be very difficult to view yourself from an outside perspective, so it can help you point you towards situations, the aspects that you might have missed. Or they can tell you, Wait a second, isn’t there a parallel to something that you have already done? So you can reference something that you’ve already achieved or done and learned from. So it can help you mirror yourself back.
The third point is, it helps you build confidence so much so because we really have the worst level of judgment towards ourselves. Because we just know what we don’t know, we know that there is so much more to know. And from an outside point of view, people can give you this feedback of – wait a second, you are already giving me so much here. There is so much value in what you’re telling me right now, how you’re approaching the situation. We couldn’t possibly do that for ourselves.
And the fourth point that I would address is, just from a resilience point of view, it’s an integral, environmental protective factor when it comes to stressful situations and dealing with shame, dealing with challenges, dealing with physical stress really. Like relieving stress. Your support network, the people that you connect with and that are there for you in these moments, can raise your resilience to a significant level.
P: But it all means that you have a very open communication with that support network.
M: I would hope so. Sometimes a support network can also allow you to just ease into it and… not just sometimes, ideally it would allow you to ease into it and you are allowed to observe how others talk about something, how others do something, and this already is a huge level of support.
P: So, going back to the benefits that you just talked about, and when we think about the event that we had. We had great people there, sharing some challenges and some issues that they either went through when they started their enterprise and their companies or that they are going through right now. What would you say were universally applied challenges? So, even though they came all from different industries, I for myself saw something that everyone was talking about. But what were your major points that everyone was talking about on that evening?
M: So, I would like to give one point, which was more of an observational point. Which was a universal experience of relief. There, people were talking openly about challenges that they overcame or challenges that they are dealing with right now, and there were just these smiles, you know, turning up on people’s faces and people openly expressing as well, it’s so refreshing that everyone is going through that…
P: And finally I can talk to somebody about it who knows what I’m talking about!
M: And who doesn’t judge me as well because they know, Well, yes, I have that too. So, it was such an easy atmosphere I feel.
But when it comes to the specific challenges, I think we already went a little bit through our highlights and, for me, it’s six specific points that we addressed at this event.
One point is the topic of self-doubt and second-guessing of oneself.
The second point is comparing yourself.
The third point then is guilt-free resting. I know from my clients as well, huge topic! How do you actually turn off?
P: It’s self-care, it’s important.
M: It’s, well, self-care is a little bit of a bigger topic then again. But this resting part as a very productive part of being high performing is so misunderstood in our hustling idea of entrepreneurship.
Now, the fourth point then, was the discussion about what do you need along this journey when it comes to your risk aversion or inclination to take risks, but also your need for security. How do you balance that and specifically, how do you plan for that in the short term, but also in the long term?
P: So, how does it affect your daily operations, how do you deal with projects coming in, not in a, like, stable manner that you can plan with that. Like, I have three projects next week or next month. So that’s what people were talking about, I guess.
M: Yes, it was also a lot about the topic of anxiety. Having anxiety about the future and the responsibility to actually be the one to decide how you are going to set your business up for the next months and which risks you are willing to take. And how to base this in reality while also dealing with the emotional and mental part of that. Which was a very interesting discussion and we are going to go into this in one of our next episodes.
And the fifth point, then, was communication as key skillset for every entrepreneur. We talked about how we are all experts in something, but the longer we do what we do, we realize it always boils down to having communication skills. Be it with your stakeholders, at first it’s partners and customers, afterwards it’s your own team. How transparent do you want to be, etc.? So I loved that question, I love that topic.
P: You would think that we actually don’t have to talk about it anymore, but it always comes up, right? Communication is… It sounds so stupid, but communication is key.
M: Yes. It really is. And interestingly enough, I know when I studied entrepreneurship and economics, it was always like “Ah, communication is this bla-bla topic”, right? And, the longer that people are in their professional journey, the more I hear back from them like “You know what? The topic of communication is coming up again.” So, now it gains in importance.
But, for the sixth point, before we go into every single topic there… The sixth point and challenge that we addressed there was actually the discussion of how do you structure how you sell your worth and your skills, and the transitioning of one concept, which is the concept of trading time versus money, and actually kind of setting yourself up completely anew. Saying, “Okay, this was our past chapter of our business. Now we’re starting into a new chapter where we are building something that is scalable, that is not defining me and my worth by the hours that I work.” A very interesting discussion.
P: But I guess, a very complicated discussion. Goes hand in hand probably with the new way of work, all the troubles and tribulations we had after Covid. So I think it’s a very very complicated issue that we are going through there.
M: Yeah, so this trading time versus money and how to transition from one concept that you have always worked with, maybe for many years already. And how to step out of this paradigm, of this concept, and shift into something new and set yourself up for a new way of working… Very entrepreneurial again, right? You are in your journey and then you have this pioneering moment again.
P: Yeah, I think all of those struggles or challenges, they were quite interesting because basically everyone had a story that they could relate to. So they all knew what they were going through. And I think it’s really interesting to see different people from different backgrounds and different industries talk about something that all of us can relate to. I think for me, though, the one universal point that everyone really knew what it was about – even though they dealt with it completely differently – was the self-doubt and how do you deal with that.
Because I think we’re constantly bombarded with “How do you do better?” “How can you be better?” “Are you even able to do all of that?”. So it’s every other point coming into this discussion, the comparing, your own pricing, and everything, it comes into this self-doubt point that makes it so hard. And I think, that was really great that people actually talked about how it feels for them, how they dealt with it, or how they are still dealing with it. And really amazing was that there was a discussion about: so how did you go through that, I’m having this problem right now, and then they just sort of had this discussion just among our participants, even without us. It was them talking to each other about how they deal with that. That was a really great part.
M: And that’s the power of a support network, right? You didn’t need the coach, or the organizer, or the host, or whoever to moderate every step and translate things and break things down. But there was already this exchange which is one of the most important parts as well about when you deal with self-doubt or self-second-guessing and if you’re struggling with recognizing your own worth. It can be difficult to overcome it by yourself because you don’t have this mirror. And, connecting with a peer, who is actually making it lighter for you, because they see you for what you are presenting in a different way compared to what you constantly compare yourself with.
P: So, you probably don’t like this question now. But is there something – a short tip – that you could give people when they are in a situation right now that they are doubting themselves about something?
M: Well, we’ll go into more detail with this in our next episode. But a quick insight that people could very easily implement is something that I always start with with my clients when it comes to the topic of self-doubt or second-guessing. And this is to stop and observe yourself.
One week, two weeks, you don’t need to go into a months-long trial now. But, the important thing is that we really start observing ourselves in these moments of self-doubt and then really write down what happened exactly in these moments, also the second before we spiraled into the typical emotional pattern.
P: So, I guess that actually takes a lot of practice? ‘Cause when you do this for the first time – and I remember when we did it in our session way back – I remember it’s not that easy to actually write down exactly what’s going on, because you’re a little bit overwhelmed. So, how do you approach that the first time or is it just that you say, try it?
M: Well, of course it’s easier if someone guides you through it because I have the levels of dimensions which are important to address or observe in these moments. And it’s also easier if you are just talking and someone else is taking notes for you.
But like you just said, it becomes a practice! The more you do it, the easier it becomes and the more fun it becomes as well. Because in the moment that you are overwhelmed, you suddenly have a task, something that you can do that will help you afterwards to overcome this moment. And in this way you are already more solution-oriented.
So, you have this practice of: Okay, while I’m suddenly noticing that I have this negative self-talk running again, I can instantly recognize, “Wait a second, which phrases am I repeating to myself?” And then, on Friday maybe, you sit down at 9am, self-care practice, and compare your notes, and find patterns, and find things that repeat themselves. Every time that you have this negative thought, these three things happen in advance. And I promise you, usually it starts way earlier than the moment where you spiral into self-doubt. Usually you are already somehow overwhelmed or insecure or stressed or something happened that makes you less resilient.
And then you are empowered to actually know what to address and how to address it.
P: So it’s a starting-off point into that journey of finding out why you are doubting yourself.
M: Yes. I always tell my clients, “Become a little scientist.” You need to become your best friend and observer in this case, so you can actually shift out of how you did things until now.
P: So, those challenges that you were just telling us about, and we dug a little deeper into just the self-doubt, but that’s what we’re going to talk about in our next episodes. That’s basically our road-map.
M: Yes, and I can’t wait for it. We will share our road-map and the topics that we want to address with you in the following weeks. But we want to hear from you too and we want to hear your stories. If you are willing to open up and share with us as well, this would enrich the whole conversation and make it so much more human. Which is exactly what we need in this space, right?
P: So share your experiences, connect with us and join us on this journey.
M: You will find all our social handles, so you can connect with us on Instagram, on LinkedIn, or via our website. You will find all the details in the show notes. We can’t wait to hear from you and have these conversations with you as well.
P: So, thanks for joining in today and see you in the next one!
Your Host:
Monika Lerch
Linkedin: /in/monikalerch/
Instagram: @themonikalerch
Your Co-Host:
Patrick Öffl
Linkedin: /in/patrickoe/
Instagram: @amikifilms
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